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Re: [cobalt-security] SUN don't care about security update ?

At 06:41 AM 3/20/2002, you wrote:

"Paul Jacobs" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> At 10:07 AM 3/19/2002, you wrote:
> >"Paul Jacobs" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > I was under the impression that most people in the
> > > Unix/Linux world are there because they can make any custom config
they
> > > want..... but sun is saying they will not support custom config's???
> >
> >I'm curious, do you know of other server appliance vendors who support
their
> >software if you make custom changes to it?  I'm comfortable with the
current
> >arrangement.  Sun could choose to offer free support for their servers
> >regardless of how the customer modifies them, but they'd likely incur
much
> >higher support expenses which would need to be passed on to their
customers
> >one way or the other.  Would you prefer free no-strings support if it
meant
> >that the servers cost 50% more?
>
> I would not mind.

Then let Sun Cobalt know that's an option you'd prefer.  Find others that
want the same and have them let Sun Cobalt know.  Sun Cobalt also offers
extended warranties and spare in the air service, which may be options you
want to consider.  I believe the prices used to be online, but now it looks
like you have to contact them for info.
http://www.sun.com/service/support/suncobalt/


Care to speculate why that is?



> Why should I have to by from a VAR to get support I got my servers direct
> from sun, and would like support....

Because that's one of the pluses of buying from a VAR.  VAR doesn't stand
for Value Added for nothing.
Most VAR'S I have dealt with look at things this way... if a customer is having problems with a product they sell and the manufacturer of the product is telling the VAR "We can not help you" the VAR will simply blow off the customer and blame it on the manufacturer.... 
That then leaves the end user 2 actions...
1. call the manufacturer for support direct, explain the whole thing over again just to have the manufacturer say "sorry, we can not help" 
2. sell off the product at a loss, and spread bad "word of mouth".


> just like if you buy an OS from microsoft... you get support on any config
> you have but it does cost you $200.00 per hour.

Cobalt Professional Services does offer hourly support.  IIRC it starts at
$200 per hour and goes to $300 or $400 per hour depending on the level of
service you want.  They also have a pay for incident phone support line
which runs $95 per incident.  I have no direct experience with either
support service, but clients of mine have.  And like I said before, you may
be able to find quality support at a lower cost from your datacenter tech
support, a VAR or an independent consultant.  Several of us on the Cobalt
lists offer Cobalt consulting services, myself included.  And I can't speak
for the others, but my hourly rate is in the double digits.  Here are some
URLs for more info.

http://www.cobalt.com/support/services/
http://www.sun.com/service/suncobalt/service_request.html

I'm not trying to suggest that Sun shouldn't make changes to what the
warranty entails and I'm not saying Sun shouldn't be more timely with bug
fixes.  I just wanted you and others reading this to know that there are
paid support options within Sun and from 3rd parties (in addition to all of
the great free support options).
But This appliance comes with a support contract when you buy it, but to work on custom config's is an extra fee?
Let's face it - a lot of Cobalt customers do not do their homework first before jumping into the world of dedicated 
servers and do not understand what's involved in keeping a live server
secure and up to date in order to administer a hosting service with the
tools and features that their clients end up wanting.
That is the main selling point with the sun cobalt boxes.... you don't have to know anything, it's all script driven from a browser... the script's just don't work very well.
Top that off with Cobalt's well-crafted marketing material that smartly stays away from the 
areas of security and administrative requirements outside of the browser and
never guarantees anything in terms of users, sites or traffic and it's easy
to see why some folks are frustrated.  If you read
http://www.cobalt.com/products/raq/index.html carefully you'll see that
Cobalt never says the server will be secure, up to date or can be entirely
administered via the GUI.  You might not like it, but it's good marketing
and I guarantee they spent a lot of money on copyrighters and lawyers to
make sure they were comfortable with what it says.  My 2 cents.
So, they take advantage of the little guy because he is to DUMB to work there box???, great first impression... no wonder the unix/linux community at large is failing. 



--
Steve Werby
President, Befriend Internet Services LLC
http://www.befriend.com/


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