Re: [cobalt-security] SUN don't care about security update ?

["Steve Werby" <steve-lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Paul Jacobs" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I believe the prices used to be online, but now it looks
> >like you have to contact them for info.
> >http://www.sun.com/service/support/suncobalt/
>
> Care to speculate why that is?

I'm just speculating, but it may have something to do with Cobalt Networks
being purchased by Sun.  IIRC, the prices were online before the merger.

> >Because that's one of the pluses of buying from a VAR.  VAR doesn't stand
> >for Value Added for nothing.
>
> Most VAR'S I have dealt with look at things this way... if a customer is
> having problems with a product they sell and the manufacturer of the
> product is telling the VAR "We can not help you" the VAR will simply blow
> off the customer and blame it on the manufacturer...

I notice you say "most".  Give your business to the VAR that gives you the
service you expect.  VARs benefit you in several ways.  One is that a good
VAR will be able to provide direct support to you.  Another is that a VAR
carries more weight with the vendor.  A VAR that has dozens of clients with
the same problem with the same product is more likely to get the vendor to
do something.

> >I'm not trying to suggest that Sun shouldn't make changes to what the
> >warranty entails and I'm not saying Sun shouldn't be more timely with bug
> >fixes.  I just wanted you and others reading this to know that there are
> >paid support options within Sun and from 3rd parties (in addition to all
of
> >the great free support options).
>
> But This appliance comes with a support contract when you buy it, but to
> work on custom config's is an extra fee?

All support contracts have limitations.  I assume you know that so I'm going
to spare you analogies.

> >Let's face it -  a lot of Cobalt customers do not do their homework first
> >before jumping into the world of dedicated
> >servers and do not understand what's involved in keeping a live server
> >secure and up to date in order to administer a hosting service with the
> >tools and features that their clients end up wanting.
>
> That is the main selling point with the sun cobalt boxes....  you don't
> have to know anything, it's all script driven from a browser...

Apologies for being blunt, but I think the only people that believe you
don't need to know anything (I assume you mean in terms of Linux
administration) are people that probably should not be entering the world of
dedicated Linux servers.  Perhaps there's a misconception that administering
servers should be easy and that anyone can and should run a successful
hosting operation.  Your interpretation of Cobalt's promises and the selling
points of the RaQs are different than mine.  To me, from the perspective of
a small hosting customer, the main selling points are the ability to enter
the world of dedicated Linux servers with little prior knowledge of Linux
server administration, the ability to have the server live several minutes
after pulling it from the box and the ability to to run a very basic hosting
operation from a browser.  Notice I said "enter".  I look at it as a
multi-step process.  You go from the world of virtual hosting to dedicated
hosting, then you increase your Linux server administration skills so you
can do more advanced things with the server, administer it properly and
possibly eventually move to a more suitable platform if one is required.

> the
> script's just don't work very well.

Except for the occasional bug which is eventually fixed and some behavior
that's less than ideal, the functionality present on the RaQs works the way
it was designed to do.  Sun has online demos for the RaQs, there are spec
sheets available and plenty of users to solicit feedback from.  IMO, no one
who buys a RaQ can say they didn't know what functionality was present in
the GUI unless they didn't do their homework.  If you need a GUI that does
more or is customized there are other add-ons and parallel GUIs that can be
run on RaQs.  And there are plenty of hosting operations that develop their
own specialized and full-purpose interfaces in-house or contract out to a
web programmer.  Been there done that.  They cost money, but so do similar
products for servers running Microsoft or other *nixes.

> So, they take advantage of the little guy because he is to DUMB to work
> there box???, great first impression... no wonder the unix/linux community
> at large is failing.

I'm not Sun Cobalt and I'm not going to put words in their mouth.  You and I
are just two fish in a big sea.  We see things differently.  But you should
know that there are lots of happy Cobalt owners out there.  I'm not just
guessing, I know - I've worked with and talked with hundreds of them.  There
are a lot that did their homework, understood the limitations and either
learned the requisite skills or hire people in-house or on a contract basis
when there's something they can't handle.  IMO, the vast majority of Cobalt
owners fall in that category.  I'm sorry that the RaQs aren't what you
thought they'd be.  I think your expectations might have just been
unrealistic and Cobalt's marketing material is probably partly to blame.
Instead of harping on it, consider this advice - learn what you need to,
find someone else who has the skills to run your server(s) for you or find a
different platform that's better suited to your needs.  I'm not saying this
to be rude.  I'm saying this because I've been in your position before and I
realized I was wasting time worrying about things that weren't helping me
achieve my goals.  Now, I generally suck it up, learn from my mistakes,
chalk them up as inexpensive life/business lessons and move on.  If you're
thinking I don't know where you're coming from or what your business is
about, you're right.  So if I'm off-base I apologize.  My advice is free.
Do with it what you will.

--
Steve Werby
President, Befriend Internet Services LLC
http://www.befriend.com/